3 days event

[deagian]

Dear all
I have now an important question
We will host a private tournament in 4 days d1A d1b d2 and final table.
They sent us the structure,
My manager told me that the tournament needs to be finished at 3am every day of course not for the final table
The tournament has 200 players 20.000 stacks (100 d1a and 100 d1b)
tournament  will start d1 at 18:00 d1b at 17:00 d2 at17:00 and the final at 14:00.
So I will post you the original structure and what I'm thinking to use.
Can you give me your opinion and a good pay out structure please?
I know that the ante should be the 10% f the b/b but I don't know about the time
Thanks in advance
original
Level   Blinds   Ante   time
1.   25-50      45 min
2.   50-100      45 min
3.   100-200      45 min
4.   150-300      45 min
5.   150-300   25   60 min
6.   200-400   25   60 min
7.   300-600   50   60 min
8.   400-800   100   60 min
9.   500-1000   100   60 min
10.   600-1200   100   60 min
11.   800-1600   200   60 min
12.   1000-2000   200   60 min
13.   1500-3000   300   60 min
14.   2000-4000   500   60 min
15.   3000-6000   500   60 min
16.   4000-8000   500   60 min
17.   5000-10000   1000   60 min
18.   6000-12000   1000   60 min
19.   8000-16000   2000   60 min
20.   10k-20k   3000   60 min
21.   15k-30k   4000   60 min
22.   20k-40k   5000   60 min
23.   30k-60k   5000   60 min
24.   40k-80k   5000   60 min
25.   50k-100k   5000   60 min

INITIAL CHIP STACK: 20,000.
LATE REGISTRATION IS AVAILABLE TILL THE END OF LEVEL 4.

my structure
Level   Blinds   Ante   time
1.   25-50      45 min
2.   50-100      45 min
3.   100-200      45 min
4.   150-300      45 min
0   Break   dinner   30min
5   200-400   25   60 min
6   300-600   50   60 min
0   Break   Chip raise 25   10min
7   500-1000   100   60 min
8   600-1200   200   60 min
   END    Tot    7.40hrs
   Day   2   
9   800-1600   200   60 min
10   1000-2000   300   60 min
11.   1500-3000   400   60 min
0   Break   Dinner
Chip raise 100   30min
12   2000-4000   500   60 min
13   3000-6000   500   60 min
14.   4000-8000   500   60 min
0   Break   Chip raise
500   10min
15.   5000-10000   1000   60 min
16   6000-12000   1000   60 min
17.   8000-16000   2000   60 min
   END    Tot    9.40hrs
   Final   Day   
18.   10k-20k   3000   60 min
19   15k-30k   4000   60 min
0   Break   Chip raise1000   10min

20   20k-40k   5000   60 min
21   30k-60k   5000   60 min
22.   40k-80k   5000   60 min
23.   50k-100k   5000   60 min
INITIAL CHIP STACK: 20,000.
LATE REGISTRATION IS AVAILABLE TILL THE END OF LEVEL

[MikeB]

Hi Degian.  A 3-day event will be regarded by players as being a serious tournament, and players will want to bring their best game. It's really hard to play your best game when blinds are being increased by 50% or more in several increments such as you have between levels 3-4, 6-7, 12-13, 14-15, 20-21, and 22-23.

To remedy this I would recommend dropping your first level, 25-50. With an average chipstack of 20,000, a 50 bb is 400x the average stack, practically meaningless. A starting bb of 100 is still 200x the bb and allows for plenty of time to "get comfortable".  The second change I'd recommend is decreasing your blind intervals from 60 mins to 45 or 50.  Doing these two simple steps will allow you to remove the drastic blind increases and allow players to settle in and play their best poker, something serious players really appreciate.

With those changes, using a 45 min. interval and 45 min dinner break you can restructure day 1a-1b as:
50-100
75-150
100-200
125-250
150-300
200-400
250-500
300-600
350-700
400-800
500-1000 

Day 2 as:
600-1200
800-1600
1000-2000
1200-2400
1500-3000
2000-4000
2500-5000
3000-6000
4000-8000
5000-10000
6000-12000

Going into the final day, the average stack (assuming 9 players), would be 27x the bb at 8000-16000 level.
8000-16000
10000-20000
12000-24000
15000-30000
17000-34000
20000-40000
25000-50000
30000-60000
35000-70000
40000-80000
50000-100000.  At 50k-100k blinds, with 3 players remaining the average stack is 13x the bb, with 2 players it's 20x, so the end is very near if it hasn't already occured.

After level 1-2, the largest percent blind increase in the above structure is 33%, with the majority at 25% or less.  Keep your antes at 10% or greater of the BB and you'll have a tournament without uncomfortably harsh blind increases.

[deagian]

ok thanks
but i have 8hrs for the day 1a and 1b and 10hrs for the day 2.
do you  think that with this structure i will arrive at the final table?
thanks in advance

[Spence]

It may sound tougher but working your way back from the end of the tournament is the best way to deal with time constraints. If you know the tournament will be finished when the average stack is 8 BB then begin moving backwards from there. Set yourself a goal of eliminating x number of players by the end of the day and have your blinds set accordingly. With a starting strack of 20,000 it will be tough. If your taking 60 in day 2 you need to eliminate 70 from each day 1 session. At the end of day 1 if you were taking around 30 players average stack would be 67,000. To get to that point lower your M ratio(Your combined total for a round of blinds and antes) to guarantee knockouts. At around 8 M's you will be losing players fast. A more comfortable 12 m's is where I feel your tournament may end properly without taking all play value away from your patrons.
I see you are ending day 1 at 600-1200, blinds 200 ante. You may be forced to take 50 from each day to day 2 and start day 2 at 100 players again. You may have some trouble getting down to the final 9 from 100 in a single day. You levels need to be a bit more aggressive to get down to an acceptable number of continuing players. One thing you may also put in your structure is something like "Day 1 plays 12 levels OR down to 30 players, whichever comes first."
A few other notes. I always roll back the blind level a bit for the day 2 and especially final table players. Usually two levels is enough that they will appreciate being able to settle into their game and play their best poker.
I try to keep my antes a little hgher than 10% of my BB. It evens out stacks a little better and will contribute to a more smooth elimination process. An 800 BB with a 100 ante is not uncommon. Agressive antes with lower blinds is what I believe MikeB is trying to get at as well. Creates a much smoother flow to the tournament. I know most of us have played in tourney's where there are chuncks of time when no eliminations happen for 2 levels then all of a sudden the blind picks up and players are forced to make moves in order to stay afloat. Suddenly you see 15% of the field eliminated in the first ten minutes of that level.
Good luck!

[deagian]

My problem is that::Day 1a  starts at 18:00 and should be finish at 03:00 with all the breaks.
Day 1b start at 17:00 till 03:00 but i can't enter more  levels i should enter  the same levels as day1a
day 2 start at 17:00 and they can play till 03:00 or til they reach the final table.
thanks in advance

[Spence]

You can't run more levels for the day 1b than day 1a. They must be mirror tournaments or you may find people will complain that one structure is different form the other. Playing down to a number of players and ending on different levels is fine though. The extra time you have on day 1b can be dedicated to something else. After those two long nights you may simply want a bit more rest or use the time to do chip inventories or card maintenance. If anyone asks why day 1b starts an hour earlier you can simply say that you are wrapping up ealry for those players who must play 2 days in a row.