Rule 21 - disputed pots / hand ends

[Dave Miller]

The recent  thread about dealer push has made me think about how that is used in regard to disputed pots.

I think a better wording for that rule would be that the right to dispute ends when the hand ends. And define a hand as ending as once all the cards are turned in the muck. IE. Once they are no longer retrievable / identifiable.

And this will help teach dealers proper procedure. I know of one otherwise very good / fast dealer who regularly mucks all the cards and moves the button before awarding the pot. It has created arguments on more than one occasion.

[Brian Vickers]

The recent  thread about dealer push has made me think about how that is used in regard to disputed pots.

I think a better wording for that rule would be that the right to dispute ends when the hand ends. And define a hand as ending as once all the cards are turned in the muck. IE. Once they are no longer retrievable / identifiable.

And this will help teach dealers proper procedure. I know of one otherwise very good / fast dealer who regularly mucks all the cards and moves the button before awarding the pot. It has created arguments on more than one occasion.

Dave, I don't follow how changing a established and well defined rule would help with training dealers.  If you say that dealers are mucking cards prior to awarding pot, why not just instruct them to award the pot prior to mucking the cards first?  If we changed it to mucking the cards being the cutoff for dispute then if one of those dealers mucks first (intentionally or no) then the players have less time to protect themselves...

[Nick C]

Dave,
I don't understand how the dealer push has anything to do with a disputed hand. They are two unrelated topics.

Since you mentioned the "otherwise very good/fast dealer who regularly mucks all the cards and moves the button before awarding the pot." I'd like to question how good he really is.Speed alone does not make a good dealer. There is a proper order of functions that must be followed by the dealer. I will list what I teach all new dealers:
   Kill losing hands (face down into the muck)
   Push the pot to the winner
   Move the dealer button
   Hit the rake slide (for cash games if applicable)
   Call for the blinds (and antes) while gathering all cards
   Begin new shuffle
Good dealers may execute the above simultaneously, but unless you are moving the button to get it out of the way of the pot being pushed to the winner, disrupting the proper order of procedures will always cause confusion.

Dave, are you thinking the "dealer push" has something to do with pushing the pot?

[Terence Bertault]

I think this sentence " on the dealer push " is confusing on the TDA rules ...

Don t understand personnally why have you put that ...

Levels don t change every dealers push ... Is TDA wanted to learn to the TD when he has to make dealers push ?

I thinks we won t have to put that on the rules ...

"At the beginning of the next hand after the timer ring " will have been enough ...

TD just have to look " When start a new hand " to understand all this rule ...

[Mateus93]

I guys

the dealer push on 22:

22: New Hand & New Limits
A new level will not be announced until the clock reaches zero. The new level applies to the next hand.
A hand begins on the first riffle, push of the shuffler button, or on the dealer push.

i understand that new hand can start when dealer says that the player on his turn can act.
but according the outhers topic im wrong hehehe