General discussion of new chips bet on top of prior bet chips not pulled in

[MikeB]

As a follow-up to a recent thread on a chip-on-chip situation (http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1068.msg9229#msg9229) let's continue a general discussion of the subject in this thread. If there are prior threads on the matter, also please feel free to link them here.

To start, consider the situation in the link above with a slight twist:

Original case: Blinds are 100 & 200. On his action, the SB throws out a 500 chip, remains silent and doesn't reach for the 100 chip sitting out there. Raise to 600 or call due to single chip rule?

New twist 1: Blinds are 100 & 200. Small blind is posted with four 25's. On his action, the SB pulls back one of the 25's and throws out a 500 chip, remaining silent throughout. Raise or call? The question here of course is whether by disturbing the original pile of chips unnecessarily, has the SB either A) made a "point" about leaving the three 25's out there such as "my bet is now 500 plus three 25's" (i.e a multiple chip current bet) OR B) given that even with the three 50's out there the SB is still short so he's just adding a silent overchip to his shortfall in order to make the call. OR C) it's not clear so it's "the lesser of" (a call) OR....

Most important is to look at this from A) the practical standpoint; i.e. what simple and memorable rule(s) would your average dealer be most likely to recall and enforce; AND B) player's perspective: what are your players most likely to be meaning when they do this and how would they interpret such action of an opponent?

[Brian Vickers]

I think even in your twist the player has not clearly made his intentions known, therefore I would still rule it a call.  The fact that we are questioning it means by it's very nature that it is unclear.  Something as simple as pushing all of those chips forward after placing in the 500 chip in would be good enough for me to show intention of a raise.

[MikeB]

I think even in your twist the player has not clearly made his intentions known, therefore I would still rule it a call.  The fact that we are questioning it means by it's very nature that it is unclear.  Something as simple as pushing all of those chips forward after placing in the 500 chip in would be good enough for me to show intention of a raise.

Brian: not disagreeing with the idea that pushing all chips forward can be used as a factor in ruling call or raise. However, it creates the possibility of a "string action" if a player first drops the new chip(s) on the old pile then pushes the entire pile forward. Food for thought.