Call or minimum raise? where an amount is declared while facing a straddle

[Unregistered84]

Situation:

Blinds are 1/2

Player A is SB 1, Player B is BB 2, and Player C is straddle 4
Next in turn (Player D) says 5 (not raise 5, only 5)

In this case,  Player D puts 4 (call) or 8 (minimum raise)?

What's your rulling Tournament Directors?

[MikeB]

Hi Unreg:

Great question. The ultimate answer is still house specific as some venues consider the straddle to be a new BB (for preflop action only) while others consider it to be a raise on top of the BB which allows the straddler to have last action pre-flop.

Assume in both cases the allowed straddle is 2X the BB, so at 5 / 10 blinds the straddle is to 20 in both cases. In the first case the min raise above the straddle is 20 for a total of 40, and in the second case it's 10 for a total of 30.

One key to your question was discussed at some length at the 2013 Summit: that declaring "5" in your example is exactly equivalent to pushing out a mixed chip bet totaling 5. Some people would construe a difference, that is that declaring any amount over the amount to call is an indication of intent to raise; however that would leave us with a situation where pushing out five 1's might be treated differently than declaring "5".  With that in mind, take a look at the two cases using the values in your post:

In the first case, where the straddle is considered the "new BB preflop", pushing out a total of 5 in chips would be a call, because the min raise is 4 (for total of 8  ) and half a min-raise (the min threshold for a chip push to be considered a raise) is 6 total. The guy just said / pushed 5 so that's less than 6, so it's a call per TDA Rules 41-A and 43.

In the second case, where the straddle is considered a raise over the BB, the min raise is 2 (for total of 6), and half a min-raise would be 5 total. In that case, the guy says / pushes 5 he has min-raised and must make it 6 total.

 

[Unregistered84]

In our poker room, we consider straddle "the new BB", with this in mind, the minimum raise would be 8 in our situation. When Player D said 5, I ruled call. If he would had said 6, then it's raise in my ruling and he has to put a total of 8 in the pot.

I didn't knew that in some poker rooms straddle is considered a raise and not the BB. It's good to know that.

Thanks Mike

[Nick C]

Unregistered84,

You might want to take a look back at this post: http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=274.0

[Brian Vickers]

The term we use in my room is that "the straddle sets a new minimum bring-in" (essentially making the straddle an optional third blind) so the min raise is double the straddle amount. If your room uses that same rule then a declaration of "5" is just a call in my eyes. 

[Unregistered84]

Thanks Nick (for the link) and Brian.