Hand-for-hand in a satellite with a "bubble" payout

[Brian Vickers]

Would like some opinions on this one.  In a satellite tournament, when would you go hand for hand: at the "payout bubble" or at the "awarded seats bubble" (or both? - yuck).

Example:
Satellite with 11 places moving on to the next tournament and 12th place receiving the leftover cash.  Would you go hand for hand at 13 or hand for hand at 12?

In a normal tournament that paid 12 spots, you'd obviously go hand-for-hand at 13, but do you consider 12 in this satellite example to be the bubble because 11 are getting the real prize and 12th is getting the leftovers or do you consider 13 to be the bubble because it actually gets nothing?

Please respond "13" or "12" and your reason if you like so I know if we're on the same page or not.

[Nick C]

Brian:
I'm not too familiar with these satellite tournaments anymore, but my guess would be 13, or the one extra player. Nothing worse than players stalling, just waiting for the guy at the "other" table to get knocked-out first. At least, it makes more sense to me.

[Brian Vickers]

Problem is, if we only do hand for hand one time, would it be more important to prevent stalling before the player got the leftover money (which is relatively small payout compared to the seat value that 11th and higher are going to receive) or more important if we prevent stalling when the next one out results in a seat to main event?

[chet]

Brian:

I don't see any reason  you can't do hand for hand for both situations.  But if you strongly feel that only one situation should apply, then I would vote for 13.  It isn't a whole lot different from events that have a very minimal payout for the last paid position.

Chet

[Tristan]

I only do 12.

[Brian Vickers]

For these I only did it at 12.  I considered the excess money the "bubble" and top 11 the only ones actually getting a prize.  Yeah, doing it twice is probably the most fair, and I might consider that in the future, I just tend to hate having a tournament slow down for that much consecutive time even if it ends right after.

[WSOPMcGee]

For these I only did it at 12.  I considered the excess money the "bubble" and top 11 the only ones actually getting a prize.  Yeah, doing it twice is probably the most fair, and I might consider that in the future, I just tend to hate having a tournament slow down for that much consecutive time even if it ends right after.

Rule of thumb for WSOP is the 50% rule and is as follows:

Assume the seat value is $1,000 entry

• Is the amount of the prize pool left over that does not equal or add up to a seat 50% or more?


• If Yes, then only do hand for hand at 13.
• If No, then do hand for hand at 13 and at 12

It goes by quicker than you think. Some people just realize they want the money and get out of there.