If opponent mucks at showdown, must winning hand be shown?. Re: TDA vs WSOP

[MikeB]

EXEMPLE 1-Both pretend to the pot.-No one want to show first.-Player A has to show first.-Player A do show is hand first.-If loosing, player B is not obliged to show his hand.

EXEMPLE 2-Both pretend to the pot.-No one want to show first.-Player A has to show first.-Player A choose to muck his hand.-Player B wins and is not obliged to show his hand.

I'm fine with these interpretations as long as: 1) These are NOT all-in hands. For an all-in hand, we must have cards up for a showdown. AND 2) You need to have a standard at which the mucked cards are not retrievable, and spell that out. Is it across a line or touching the muck, or buried in the muck? AND 3) Merely saying "I fold" at showdown does not constitute an irretrievably mucked hand because verbal declarations have no meaning at showdown... the cards must have reached whatever point is required by your rules to constitute irretrievably mucked.

Personally, I'd like to see a common rule that any 100% identifiable hand can be retrieved by it's player at any point at showdown, i.e. the only thing that kills a hand at showdown is being buried in the muck. This would eliminate alot of parsing of whether a hand has been "technically" killed... either it's 100% identifiable or it's not... A TDA veteran suggested this to me awhile back and I like the idea alot because it's a very workable standard.

[Nick C]

A good dealer should be able to prevent any player from mucking their called hand during tournament showdown.

[Guillaume Gleize]

I really hope the next TDA meeting will clarify the showdown rules wich are (in my tourneys) 80% of the problems!