2013 TDA Rules

[K-Lo]

Why does the rule say: "In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted"??
Player A has already acted in the betting round (1st raise to 10 from UTG)

Good observation.  Check out the discussion thread on that point here:  http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=746.0

[TomKarr]

Got one more question on rule 12. Situation: Player A on BB is facing a raise pre-flop from player B on hi-jack. He calls. Flop goes check-check, turn and river as well, who has to show 1st?

[Steven]

...If there was no bet in the last round, the player to the left of the button shows first and so on clockwise. ...

Therefore,  IMHO

     Player A shows first. 

[Tristan]

"In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted"??
Player A has already acted in the betting round (1st raise to 10 from UTG)

It is hard to find the right wording so that there is no confusion.  Of course any player who has been fully raised has an option of raising again when the action comes back to them (Player A in your situation).  The real question that is answered by this line is if Player B is allowed to raise.  The sentence is in this rule to help TDs/players/dealers differentiate between limit and no-limit. 

UTG raises 10€, guy on UTG+2 reraises to 20€, (Alright, right now we know that UTG will have the option to raise when the action comes back to them because they were raised...fully.)
Third guy goes all-in for 37€, can the original raiser (UTG) reraise or not?  (This part does not even apply to your question.)

Because we already know UTG is able to raise, the next question is if UTG+2 is able to raise.

Let's look at the scenario.

A bet 10
B bet 20 (raised 10)
C bet 37 (raised 17)

According to TDA,

In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted

Ok, so we now just need to determine what a full raise is and if each player made one.

A raise must be at least the size of the largest (bet or) raise of the current betting round.

A bet 10
B raised 10 (At least the size of A's bet)
C raised 17 (At least the size of B's raise)

According to TDA, every player made a full raise.  So "In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted" does not apply in this situation because they were all full raises.

If your house rules are different, it makes it more difficult.  Your establishment has to figure out how they mesh with TDA's set of rules.

Hope that helps!

[Tristan]

Got one more question on rule 12. Situation: Player A on BB is facing a raise pre-flop from player B on hi-jack. He calls. Flop goes check-check, turn and river as well, who has to show 1st?

According to TDA, if it is a checked round on the river, showdown goes in order from the button with the button being last.

[TomKarr]

Thanks yo all, i really appreciate every post!

[Nick C]

Tristan,

Looking back at your reply #34, I thought it would be beneficial to ask our members what the next min raise would be:
Let's look at the scenario.

A bet 10
B bet 20 (raised 10)
C bet 37 (raised 17)

The answer is a min raise of 17 for a total of 54. (10+10+17+17=54).
This would apply to any player in the hand, that follows Player C's raise; Player's D, E, F if there were multiple player's, or Player A or B.

[Nick C]

Where is everyone? Does no response mean everyone agrees with me  By everyone, I'm referring to the 1/10th of 1% of the members that participate on the forum.

Mike B, K-Lo, Chet, Tristan, Brian, Stuart, Luca, TomKarr, Jasper, Ebro, bgoods, cwmiller...

[K-Lo]

Agreed!   

[chet]

Nick:

As bad as I screwed up my last answer, I have decided to sit back and absorb some of the knowledge and experience from others that obviously are a step or two higher on the ladder of smarts than I.   

Besides it is too damn cold around here for my brain to work on all cylinders, have to wait for the weather to change seasons.

Chet

[Nick C]

Chet,

No problem. We are in a deep freeze here, too.

It took me a long time to understand the current raise rules for no-limit and pot limit. Now that I have it all figured out, I'm sure someone will come along and change it. I know there are many that have problems with these rules...that is why I am always sticking my 2 cents in. Many of the rules for poker need to be written so they are easily understood by all. I am not in favor of changing all of the rules, as many believe, however most are in need of clarification. Clear examples of specific situations would be helpful.

K-Lo,
  I'm glad you responded.

For those that do not agree, or just don't understand, please let us know. I'm sure we will be able to help.

[Tristan]

Yep, sorry Nick, thought you were talking to others.  Total agreement with your example.

Chet, I hear you man!  Going down to the Bahamas for 10 days spoiled me...I got back and was hit by this negative degree weather...Ugh!

[TomKarr]

Hello, got new question and it is about technical aplication...

Does the dealer or floor or tournament director have the right to count players chip-stack when some other player requires it? I mean chip-stack, not a bet or all-in that was placed in the middle of the table.

[K-Lo]

Hello, got new question and it is about technical aplication...

Does the dealer or floor or tournament director have the right to count players chip-stack when some other player requires it? I mean chip-stack, not a bet or all-in that was placed in the middle of the table.

Hi Tom:  You will find what i think is a related discussion on your topic here: http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=600.0

[Nick C]

TomKarr,

I know the dealer can't count the chips; and I know of no specific rule that even allows the floor to count a players chips. As long as they are clearly visible and not in "dirty stacks." I guess you could ask the player in question for a count. If he refuses...well, I guess he doesn't have to tell you.