confusion in HSP hand over in-the-dark betting

[W0lfster]

look around the 5:10 mark - 5:23 Jamie Gold and Sammy Farha see the turn without checking or even betting on the flop. How can players agree to see another card without any action? any Thoughts??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erNjXtuKawU&feature=player_embedded

[chet]

This whole thing was best described by Doyle, when he said, IN THE VIDEO, "What has poker come to?"

My suggestion is to watch these programs High Stakes Poker, Poker After Dark more for the entertainment value and less for the technical poker value.  Players at these levels are not all that concerned with the poker technicalities as they may be with just the action. 

[W0lfster]

But still, why does that give them a right to mess with rules?

[Nick C]

Andy,
Just some friendly advice, if you really want to learn all about becoming a floorman, or tournament director, stop watching Poker After Dark. Consentrate on the TDA rules and you will know that everything they do is wrong, everything! Chet is correct when he tells you to watch for entertainment only. If I were you, I would stick to tournament poker until you understand all of the rules, then you can understand the difference between cash games and tournaments. You have offered some very interesting topics but, they are not tournament related and I really think they will confuse you even more. That's just my two cents.

[W0lfster]

I understand Nick but I just think its wrong. Im very observant and if something is wrong I need an answer or have the need to comment on it. But for that particualr situation Nick, why would you say they allowed what they did in the video?

[MikeB]

look around the 5:10 mark - 5:23 Jamie Gold and Sammy Farha see the turn without checking or even betting on the flop. How can players agree to see another card without any action? any Thoughts??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erNjXtuKawU&feature=player_embedded

Wolf, there technically was "action" on the flop per the line of thinking at the table...
1) The downcards are dealt there is a pre-flop round of betting: a) GOld smooth calls the BB w/ KK, and Farha raises pre-flop with AA... b) Gold smooth calls Farha's raise...

2) THEN, Farha declares a bet in the dark (this is a bet on the flop to come) of 10k... Gold raises this to 30k... THEN Farha re-raises Gold, again in the dark...  Look at it this way, normally Farha would bet in the dark THEN the flop would come, then Gold would have the option to call or raise Farhas in-the-dark bet, (or to fold).... Instead, GOld reacted to Farha's in the dark bet by raising, also in the dark, then Farha re-raises (again in the dark.) ... AND GOLD CALLS...

3) All of this in-dark bet-raising is actually "action" on the flop, and since it's now called, there's no additional betting to occur on the flop. So the flop is dealt (with betting action completed in the dark), and thus the turn is then dealt next..... While this is all very unusual, I can't argue with the logic that the in-the-dark betting, if allowed, constintued completion of betting on the flop. Also keep in mind this is a cash game, not a tournament.

[W0lfster]

arrr ok thanks Mike I see it now, May I ask if you are allowed to bet in the dark in tournaments?

[chet]

The ONLY seat that can possibly bet "in the dark" would be the seat that is first to act.  If it happened in an event that I was the TD for, and it was NOT the person in the first seat to act, I would rule it "action out of turn" under rule #29.  The first time, that player would get a warning, if repeated, then a penalty that would begin after the hand was completed.

I know of no rule that specifically prevents a player from betting 'in the dark'.

[W0lfster]

Thanks Chet, its clearer now so basically checking in the dark whether it be cash game or Tournament doesnt matter, it is still allowed.