Multiple exposed cards in a stud deal

[K-Lo]

Here's an interesting situation:

Seven Card Stud

Seat 1 brings-in with the low card. Seat 2 completes. All remaining players fold to seat 1 who calls.

The dealer burns a card, and instead of dealing fourth street cards to the two players, he deals a flop!   The floor is called to the table, The proper order of the cards is NOT possible to determine with 100% certainty.

Your ruling?

[chet]

K-Lo: 

Just to get things going and I will preface this by saying I am not a Stud Poker person:

How about putting those three cards back into the stub, wash very well and re-deal 4th street, the burn card remains the burn?  I would not reshuffle as it is possible for a player to see one or more cards, for the same reason, I would not cut.

As I see it, this is the best way to ensure the randomness of the cards dealt to each player, in fact, with this solution it is possible (albeit very unlikely) the players could get the card they should have received in the first place.

Now lets see what the Stud experts have to say.

Chet

[Nick C]

 Believe it or not, this happened more than you would think. If the dealer is right handed and places the flop on the table in the normal manner: Burn, followed by the first card off (A card), covered  by the second card off (B card), covered by the third card off (C card) and spread in the normal manner; from left to right...the A card will be to the far right. This is confusing to many and you really have to show the players how you arrived at your decision.

There were times when the floor would go to the table and make the wrong call. Player's would laugh first, tell the dealer to get his head out of his butt, call the floor and the floor would proceed to distribute the fourth street cards by directing the first card to the one seat, the second card to the two seat, and the third card to the three seat...which of course was incorrect. I hope I'm explaining this so you can follow it. In the above explanation the only player that has his proper card is the two seat player.

If the dealer happens to be left handed, he will fan the cards from right to left...this will put the A card first, the B card second, and the C card third, in other words; in proper order.

In any event, the floor should be able to figure the proper cards to each player.

[K-Lo]

Hi Nick:

Yes, I agree that if we can determine the correct order of the cards we should certainly do so... But the question asked what if you were not able to...then what?

In this case, it appears that once the flop was exposed, the dealer -- by reflex -- realized his mistake and then scooped all the cards together and covered the cards with his hand supposedly to hide the exposed cards... But obviously too late and now the order has been compromised!

I can tell you what I did but I have some ideas of how what I think should be done... Thought I'd put it out there first.

K

[Nick C]

Okay, I would burn the number of cards for that street, set those cards aside, burn and replace forth street with fifth street. If the hand goes to seventh street, then I would reshuffle the forth street cards into the stub and deal the river.

[K-Lo]

So, similar to the situation where there has been a premature deal of the next street?  That's not what I did, but I don't mind it actually. It would be easier to apply.  And I agree only in situations where it is impossible to determine the proper order of the cards, as that is always preferred.

How do you feel about other possibilities?  Immediately reshuffling the "flop" into the deck and redealing?  Dealing the next street and then reshuffling?  Scrambling the cards and dealing those out on the same street at random? 

[Nick C]

Ken,

It's not that I would necessarily object to one of the methods you've mentioned...it's just that I've never seen it. There are times when heavy action has already occurred on the opening betting round. It seems like a lot of work, and there's no guarantee that any of those exposed cards will ever be dealt. I like to put myself in the position of one of those players. Can you imagine sitting in the Two seat, and watching your third King get re-shuffled into the deck?

I guess maybe it was easier for me to make that call because every dealer had to use the exact same method when placing the flop on the board. Come on dealers, let's concentrate!

I've done it myself, when dealing, back in the day. Talk about feeling like a fool!

[Tristan]

I personally like just reshuffling it.

[Nick C]

Tristan,

You would rather reshuffle the exposed cards into the deck stub, really?

Why do you feel that's better? You are changing the complete possibility, that the maximum number of proper cards are dealt. I prefer: preserve the highest possible number of proper cards to each player...that is the correct card they would have received if the error did not occur.

If you feel that strongly about it, just put it in your house rules. Any time the dealer places a flop onto the table, in a stud type game, the exposed cards will be reshuffled and re-dealt.